Monday, May 07, 2007

Rumor Patrol

We hear lots of rumors as we are out and about on the road and cruising through the internet. Some make us just laugh out loud, shake our head or roll our eyes. Others we take a little more seriously. Over the last couple of months, we’ve noticed that one particular video on YouTube has been getting conversations going about security chains.

Recently, our friend Fritz, asked us if we’d seen the video yet and added his comments to a blog that posted the video. Since you asked, we’ll be more than happy to address this, Fritz!

Yes, we have seen the video of a competitor breaking security chains. It’s one that doesn’t have us laughing out loud, but it does have us rolling our eyes a little bit. Listen to the woman as she introduces the last two chains, of which the supposed New York Fahgettaboudit is one. She plainly states that the last two chains “aren’t brand new. They were kindly donated by Visadown users.” (I may have that name wrong)

The Kryptonite ‘lock’ does not have a lock on it at all. It’s a length of chain in a Kryptonite sleeve that even the women from our competitor can not say is a length of Kryptonite chain because she didn’t purchase it from a dealer. However, that’s neither here nor there - when the gentleman shows the link after he’s cut it, check it out, pause the video like we did (7:07 into the video). It doesn’t look like a 6-sided Fahgettaboudit link, more like a 4-sided link. Hmmm…if that’s not right, what else isn’t right with that video?

We are much more apt to trust truly non-biased testers who have honest to goodness Kryptonite products to test, like Cycling Plus. We also submit our products to test with independent testing agencies like Sold Secure, ART and a host of others. They aren’t competitors, testing is what they do for insurance companies. They are unbiased parties testing the products for a living. They are good at it, just like the guys at Cycling Plus.

24 comments:

Ed W said...

Just an idle speculation, Donna, but is it possible that the product was counterfeit? I work in aviation and it's a constant worry for our QA people.

I'm very lucky to be working inside the security perimeter, so I don't need a Kryptonite lock these days, though I did use one of your original ones way back in the 70s.

Donna T. said...

Hey Ed....hmmmm...hadn't thought about that.

An original Kryptonite user, eh? Very, very cool! Nice to 'meet' you! :)

Lee said...

If your that confident he's a fraud and your merchandise is pukka, why not invite him down for a non-biased test. I know the kyle gas look a like isnt an employee of your competitor, he is just one of the good guys looking out for bikers and their posessions.

Anonymous said...

Donna,

It's visordown.com, and you've been rumbled.

Cecil

Anonymous said...

Must admit that Kryptonite Evolution U lock that could be opened with a pilot pen do indeed show Kryptonite's commitment to quality.

To see just how good Kryptonite locks are copy and paste this into your address bar.

http://uk.youtube.com/results?search_query=Kryptonite+lock&search=Search

Mmmmmm, not so good then.

Regards Scott.

pow said...

I have the newyork D lock and the forgetabout it chain, I am concerned about what I see..

If it is proven these can both be broken in seconds I would like to have a full refund for both items as they were not cheap and if proven, dont offer the protection the literature stated with them.

What do Kryptonite have to say about this??

Anonymous said...
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english pig said...

I welcome anyone who actively tests the 'quality' of consumer products. Especially considering that manufacturers have a tendency to forget to do this themselves before putting their product on the market, charging us mugs big buck$ for it and making claims that their product cannot live up to.
Go go go Visordown chain snapper dude and IQ18.
You are doing us bikers an invaluable service. We thank-you.

Chain Chick said...

english pig

You should watch ITV1 (UK) Tuesday July 24th 2007 at 7:30pm or Sky Channel 993 To catch Gone in 60 Seconds. The Bike Crime Wave.

They have tested various approved security products from an array of manufacturers. The title is a dead give away. Coz they were defeated in seconds.

Anonymous said...

Donna,

You protest too much.
As stated "you've been rumbled" and it's time to improve or be left behind.

fatboyjim

Donna T. said...

Wow – there’s been a lot of chatter here while I was on vacation. Sorry it took me so long to respond, but I truly took a vacation – no email and I didn't check the blog comments either. Sometimes you really need to unplug, right?!

I’ve often admitted that I’m not the most ‘hip’ or techie savvy so I’m sorry, I don’t know what ‘rumbled’ is...but I’ll take a stab at answering everyone here.

We stand behind our products 100%. Always have, always will. And, as stated here, in the original post…please do remember that the people making the fuss are our competition. They are the ones doing the testing. We stick with the results from Sold Secure, ART and a host of other independent testing agencies as well as magazine tests. The guys at Cycling Plus? Wow – great testers! We’ve gotten great results there – and no, before you say it, we don’t advertise there. I think our distributor does, but we don’t. Hmmm…don’t see this particular competitor in those tests even….

David – we’re not saying anything about your company at all. However, in the What Mountain Bike forum (it’s now Bikeradar.com and I can’t get to the link – I’m working on finding it and will post it here when I do) the man in the video in the pink shirt replies to someone calling out that it is not a New York Fahgettaboudit chain in the video:

“Indeed, that looks like a Luma and went ka BAM like a Luma.”

I am not into bashing Luma…far from it. I just want everyone here to understand that the person testing the chain admitted that the chain in the video is not a Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit Chain. If the guy who tested it is now saying that it isn’t a Kryptonite, and he tested it…well, what else isn’t exactly kosher here?

We have been contacted by the television station and we will be working with them for their program. I’ll be sure to keep you all posted on that.

Everyone is going to have their favorite brand of security. We understand that. Some people are even not going to like or trust Kryptonite products. Ok, too. Just please, please get a security product that you are comfortable with and always lock your bike and/or motorbike properly.

Lee said...

But it wasnt your competition that nuked your products it was captain cropper. He doesnt work for Almax at all.

Donna T. said...

Lee - I don't think "Captain Cropper" works for Almax directly. You may be correct there. However, I believe, he is one in the same as 'pink shirt' from the What Mountain Bike thread that I mention in my last comment.

Thanks for checking back and joining the conversation.

Adrian said...

Well I have a Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit chain and it doesn't have a square cross-section. It is hexaganol.

So either-
a) they used the wrong chain on purpose
b) whoever donated it did not know it was not a Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit chain

But it seems strange that they would buy all the rest of the chains apart from the last two. And why did they not show their own chains trying to be cut with those huge bolt-croppers? You would think that they would show their chains lasting for longer than the others if thats what they are claiming.

Lee said...

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=CaptainCropper&p=r

Adrian you can see him trying to crop Almax chains here.

You can see him killing sold secure products in very little time with very little effort - thats why a lot of people have no faith in the sold secure logo.

Anonymous said...

Personally I don't care in the least bit who actually the chains, as long as they are tested properly.
Also, its worth remembering the fact that Captain Cropper is only endorsing some products because they do what they say they do and doesn't work for Almax at all.

Hes just sick of security products not living upto their advertising and initially wanted to make it harder for theives to steal motorcycles.

I am not exactly sure what your definition of "Great Testers" means but if it's scrawny runts that couldn't crack a wallnut with a set of boltcrops then the Cycling plus testers may well qualify.
Perhaps they should try harder.

These products are not being broken by new fangled devices at all, they are being cut by readily avaliable tools that most theives have known about for years.

If you advertise a product as unbreakabe with handtools for five minutes or more then it better damm well be that otherwise its false advertising.
They did test the hexagonal Forgetabout it chain by the way and it lasted even less time that the square section Kryptonite lock so perhaps it would have been wiser if Donna had kept quiet and let that one slide

One point I will concede is that even with an unbreakable chain on a pushbike its not rocket science to cut through the bike frame which is only slightly thicker than a coke can and take the bike to sell all the expensive components on it.
Maybe thats a good reason to use a cheap bike for pootling around town on and leave the two grand pushbike at home till you actually need it.

The theif might not look at the whole bike and think "wow, I must have the bike completley perfect" they look at its re-sale value and can strip it down.

I am sorry to post as anonymous but i can't be trashed with registering for only a couple of posts.

Regards Scott

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

I have had two bikes secured Kryptonite locks stolen in the last 11 months. I looked at the other options and purchased a chain and lock designed for motorbikes. The chain cost me £270 (GBP about $550 US) for the lock and chain.

You cannot stand by a product that is flawed, you cannot make money from people with false promises. You cannot expect to remain remotely credible if independent people show your product to be unfit for use.

An Future Publishing we may have more to say to our readers on issues whereby cinsumers are being misled.

Captain Cropper said...

Just like to publicly offer my services to Kraptonite and fly to their HQ with my bag of tools and chop chippety-chop or wedge my way through whatever Kraptonite products are deemed to be above reproach (I'm not paying for the tickets though). FYI, your New York 3000 has been getting some close attention recently and it looks like it has more than one weakness that can be exploited using cheapo tools, whether dipstick American thieves exploit them or not is up to them. If it works, it'll be on Youtube, if Kraptonite want to know what the weaknesses are.....well ;) That would be telling.

Anonymous said...

Hi 'Bonds',

Just re-read you blog post, and noticed this bit:

"Over the last couple of months, we’ve noticed that one particular video on YouTube has been getting conversations going"

Couple of months?

As you're a company totally involved in security, what action have you taken in that time - and since that May blog post - to verify the strength of your chain against cropping?

Incidentally, I saw a UK police officer post this on a forum:

"I came accross a bicycle shed stuffed with 2 stolen peds (one on top of the other) a year ago.

"they were resting on a massive pile of oxford chains.All had been cropped.I found the croppers the handles were about a foot an a half to 2 feet long.

"Its not scaremongering its happening for real,Sadly the bike thieves are finding it dead easy nowadays."

Look forward to your responses,

H

Anonymous said...
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Gerard Port-Salut said...

I am Gerard Port-Salut from Paris. My English is not so good, sorry. We are having a very bad crime here in Paris, I have Kryptonite New York chain, it is very good, we have much stealing here and the bisycle I using for selling onions is not stolen for many years with my Kryptonite. My friend he says he sees the Youtube video and that Kryptonite is made of cheese, we argues alot, I say which cheese, Brie or Parmesan, he say Brie. We do not talk so much these days, he is a fool. I like to thank Kryptonite for making much good chain like the New York, much harder than Parmesan.
Many regards, Gerard Port-Salut.

Donna T. said...

Hello everyone - sorry for the delay, it's been a busy week here and barely any time for me to tend to the blog!

If you are a customer, have a Kryptonite lock and have a concern, please feel free to contact our customer service at letters@irco.com.

We will have a full statement, on this blog, when the above mentioned television show airs. Hopefully, it will answer everyone's questions and concerns at that time.

Until then...safe riding everyone.

Todd said...

Cheese and locks? Okay, not sure how seriously to take that comment, especially since his name IS a cheese. Mais, Gerard, moi, j'aime le fromage Port-Salut le mieux, en fait!

Anyway, Donna, hello from a long-time fan. Great to see you with a blog, interacting with your key audiences, and still committed to learning and being honest when you don't know--those are the cornerstones of good blogging.